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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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10.07.2017 15:02:26
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Bottasel midagi õppida, järgmine kord rohkem pingutama
Spoiler 
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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11.07.2017 15:23:41
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Jean Todt ikka suht mannetu vend FIA bossuna,
Silverstone kadumas, Sepang kadumas
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Tomorrow
HV Guru

liitunud: 08.02.2006
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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11.07.2017 17:05:04
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no lihtsalt et traditsioonirajad kaovad,
need city tracks suht pohh mu jaoks, kuigi paistab et järjest rohkem neid tulemas,
London GP juba ootamas ju
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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12.07.2017 08:20:46
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https://bruznic.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/new-mercedes-loophole-discovered/
| tsitaat: |
| During the Grand Prix weekend in Baku the FIA had made it clear to the teams that it does not allow them to preheat their hydraulic components of their chassis. Five teams are directly involved with such preheating activities, even when the cars are parked in the Parc Fermé. The Germans of Auto, motor und sport are reporting the next saga in the hydraulic suspension series. |
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mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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12.07.2017 10:25:52
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mnjaa müstilisi trikke ikka leitakse alati
raja soojendamine puhuritega stardi eel parema stardi jaoks jms
e:
| tsitaat: |
Formula 1 is to host an event in London on Wednesday, with all 10 teams present, in order to promote the sport in the run-up to this weekend's British Grand Prix.
The event, which will take place around the Trafalgar Square area through Wednesday afternoon and evening, marks the first time in history that all teams have come together outside of a race weekend.
The event will be split into two parts, with an F1 Schools and Innovation Showcase from 12:00 to 16:00 for local schoolchildren to learn about the opportunities for a career in motor-racing.
The 'F1 Live London' show and parade will take place from 17:30 to 21:00 and will be broadcast live on the official Formula 1 site and its Youtube channel.
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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13.07.2017 11:08:21
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| tsitaat: |
More
Mercedes expects apex speeds at Copse corner of nearly 290 km/h. Previous record was 265 km/h (2016). Peak lateral load: Abbey - 5.5G. #AMuS |
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mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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13.07.2017 12:18:36
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Rosberg sai ka oma esimese Omniva kogemuse
| tsitaat: |
Formula 1 world champion Nico Rosberg says he lost the drivers' championship trophy before his recent visit to the Goodwood Festival of Speed.
Rosberg, who clinched the 2016 drivers' title before announcing his retirement from F1, attended the Festival of Speed with Mercedes earlier this month to demonstrate one of the team's cars and also sent the trophy to the event.
Rosberg said the trophy went missing for five days during its delivery, before it was safely returned to his possession.
-"I've had a massive scare because we sent it [the drivers' trophy] off to Goodwood recently - with super-high security - and it got lost," he said.
"It was gone for five days.
"It was lost in the post!
"I had some restless days, but now it's back."
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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13.07.2017 12:23:44
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mhhhh.... ja lewis olevast kuskil" puhkusel "
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Tomorrow
HV Guru

liitunud: 08.02.2006
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jeesus188
kodustatud

liitunud: 14.04.2003
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13.07.2017 14:48:23
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Tomorrow, see puhkus on bs, valis nädala kus 2 etappi järjest? Iga teine muu nädal oleks parem olnud ja pealegi peale 2 etappi on suvepuhkus
_________________ This message was sent from space using stargate
Inimene on troopiline AHV Aga kes on naine? Valge on ka inimene !
"Vaese inimese juttu räägid. Kui tundub kallis, siis on see kellelegi teisele mõeldud" |
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Magic
HV Guru

liitunud: 28.12.2001
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13.07.2017 15:04:05
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| Tomorrow kirjutas: |
BS ütleks selle peale - homme peab niikuinii platsis olema. Ei saanud siis paar päeva varem tulla. Eriti kui tegu kodumaaga.
Jätab sellise elitisti mulje a'la ma olen teist parem. Mina tulen ainult sõite sõitma. Edasi vaadake ise. Pealegi tegu oli ainult kahepäevase tretiga. Oli siis suur probleem panna see järgmise nädala algusesse? Ungaris sõidetaklse alles 2+ nädala pärast. Siis on aega küll enne seda sõpradega kuskil pidutseda
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Ta ehk Bottase osas rohkem hämmingus
Selles suhtes oleks ikka hea tüng kui Bottas võidaks
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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13.07.2017 15:11:22
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Hämm lihtsalt ei tahtnud näha Bottast ja Vettelit,
just brain reboot et keskenduda sõidule kus ta ka räme favo on,
muidugi pettumus samas UK fännidele et ta selle ürituse skippis
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Magic
HV Guru

liitunud: 28.12.2001
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13.07.2017 15:15:55
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vodka teraapiat teeb...siis vaatab, et raisk Soomes toodetud
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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13.07.2017 15:39:33
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| Magic kirjutas: |
| Tomorrow kirjutas: |
BS ütleks selle peale - homme peab niikuinii platsis olema. Ei saanud siis paar päeva varem tulla. Eriti kui tegu kodumaaga.
Jätab sellise elitisti mulje a'la ma olen teist parem. Mina tulen ainult sõite sõitma. Edasi vaadake ise. Pealegi tegu oli ainult kahepäevase tretiga. Oli siis suur probleem panna see järgmise nädala algusesse? Ungaris sõidetaklse alles 2+ nädala pärast. Siis on aega küll enne seda sõpradega kuskil pidutseda
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Ta ehk Bottase osas rohkem hämmingus
Selles suhtes oleks ikka hea tüng kui Bottas võidaks  |
Wolf laseb igaks juhuks bottase mootori kotti
Ferrarile peaks see rada paremini isegi sobima, kui Mersule. Aero sektorites Ferrari alati ees olnud Mersust.
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mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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13.07.2017 17:37:40
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Spoiler 
| tsitaat: |
British GP - Preview
2017-07-16 00:00:00 (This report was created at 2017-07-13 13:31:45)
Silverstone marks the half way point in the 2017 season and it’s a good time to reflect and look at the current state of affairs. The race for the title was looking like a two horse race just a week ago, with Vettel and Hamilton going head to head. Since then we have seen Valtteri Bottas win in Austria while Hamilton struggled with a grid penalty. The result is that Vettel is now in the lead of the championship by 20 points from Hamilton, but Bottas has moved to just 15 points behind his teammate. Suddenly Hamilton is getting squeezed between two other drivers and the thought of Bottas closing the gap further still must be giving Mercedes management nightmares.
There is also the matter of Red Bull finding some form. They promised to be very competitive this year but turned up with a fairly ordinary car that was not in the same league as Mercedes or Ferrari. That would seem to be changing. Ricciardo’s win in Baku was just one of those freak results and not a sign that they were ready to win on merit. However he now has five straight podiums including that win and while there has been a touch of good fortune about some, which was not the case in Austria where he was able to keep the Mercedes of Hamilton at bay. Adrian Newey has taken a more hands on role in developing the car and that seems to be paying dividends, along with the steady improvement in power from the Renault power unit.
Of course Red Bull has two drivers and the more talented one is having the season from hell. While he sits and watches his team mate drinking champagne from his shoe, Verstappen is cursing his luck. If anything is going wrong for Red Bull it is always on Verstappen’s car. Five retirements from the last seven races is the worst record of any team/driver on the grid. Clearly backing Red Bull carries a significant risk and surely all the failures will not always be on Verstappen’s car.
If Mercedes, Ferrari and now Red Bull are in the potential race winner category, the best of the rest has to be Force India who has enjoyed a very solid start to the season, with both drivers contributing to their point’s score in seven of the races. Compare that to just twice for Red Bull. There is no doubt that they have missed a couple of opportunities to score a podium but with their second big upgrade of the season coming this weekend, surely they can land some silverware soon.
Force India is 49 points clear of Williams who are busy celebrating their 40th birthday. It does increasingly look like Williams best days are firmly behind them and a poor driver line up this year has cost them points. Ok Lance Stroll has now scored points in the last three races, including his lucky podium in Baku, but I would suggest that if they had Alonso and Vandoorne, they wouldn’t be trailing Force India by 49 points, if at all. A decent car rather wasted in the pursuit of delivering shareholder dividends above all else.
Toro Ross is falling backwards after a good start to the season. Four DNF’s in the last three races is poor and they are beginning to lose their appeal as a solid points scoring outfit. Ironically Sainz has been slagging Haas off for being inconsistent but if anything the America team are getting their act together just as Toro Rosso are going down the tubes. Grosjean qualified 7th in Austria and Magnussen was also going well in the race before a hydraulic pipe burst ended his days’ work early. One of the team’s biggest problems has been their brakes and coming to Silverstone will be a welcome relief for them as it is a circuit that involve relatively little hard braking. Grosjean has had four points scoring races from the last five and with just a few breaks for Magnussen, they can start getting some double points finishes.
Renault has been disappointing. Only 18 points from the season, no points for Joylon Palmer and no points from the last two races. You have to have some sympathy for Palmer who has been given a car that just doesn’t work properly most of the time while at the same time warning him to up his game if he wants to keep his seat. Sorry, but even the best drivers in the world couldn’t win in a stationary car and that is what Palmer is getting most of the time. When he can last to end of a race he is very close to scoring his first points. He now has three 11th place finishes from the last four races so it looks he will score soon, so long as Renault can up their game.
Sauber are going through some management changes which may help in the longer run but they are lumbered with a year old Ferrari power unit which will become less competitive by the race. They are not last however as that dubious honour goes to the once great McLaren. Honda finally introduced their Spec three power unit in Austria but while it was a small improvement, it was not enough to get the car into Q3. Vandoorne was impressed and left Austria quite upbeat for the first time this year and he can’t be that far from getting on the scoreboard soon.
In terms of recent form, looking at just the last five races since the upgrades went on the cars in Spain, the biggest points scorers are Ricciardo and Vettel on 85 points, Hamilton is next with 78, Bottas (with one DNF) has 73. The fifth biggest scorer in this period in Ocon with 30, followed by Perez with 28. That underlines the current gap between the top three teams and the best of the rest.
The British GP
Make the most it race fans as Silverstone will hold only one more grand prix…….possibly. The fact that the tracks owners and the race promotor, the B.R.D.C., have activated a break clause only means that they wish to renegotiate the ludicrous deal they, or some predecessors, signed with Bernie Ecclestone. There aren’t many tracks, or any tracks, that can make a profit on staging a grand prix given the sky high hosting fees demanded by the short sighted short man. Add to that the 5% escalator on the fees and even a venue like Silverstone that will sell 120k+ tickets (expensive tickets) cannot hope to break even.
Favourite for the race is home crowd favourite Lewis Hamilton. He’s odds on with most books which seems a bit short for a driver who has won three of the nine races so far. That certainly is not the form of an odds on shot but it’s his track record which drives down his price. He has won three of the last four British GP’s, been on pole position for the last three and he has the best track record by some margin. Hamilton is a marmite character but he is adored by the vast majority of the crowd, it does feed his ego, and drivers very egoistical characters. Home tracks aren’t always an advantage but Hamilton uses the crowds well as a motivating factor. Or he did up until Wednesday.
The F1Live event in London was a new marketing tool introduced by F1’s new owners and to get every team and driver to turn up to do a street demo and meet and greet for the fans was some achievement. Every driver bar one turned up. That one was fan favourite Lewis Hamilton, who was ‘on holiday’. It is very hard to say how much you love your fans and then skip an event which allows those fans to get up close and personal. His absence was noted by all and he will get a lot of flack for it. Journalists will ask him awkward questions, like……was it because you are a tax exile? As a shooting yourself in the foot exercise …….it was a masterclass.
Sebastian Vettel is the 14/5 second favourite which is a much better price for a driver who also has three wins this season, but also four second places. His consistency has been excellent and he will be hard to beat in this year’s championship. His chances will be boosted by a new upgraded Ferrari power unit. His track record is reasonable with one win but there have been just two podiums in the last five years. That said, he has a much more competitive car this season and he will be in the mix again come Sunday.
2 points e/w Sebastian Vettel to win the British GP @ 14/5 with Betstars (1/3 the odds 1-2)
Bottas is still underrated at 11/2. He has won two races now and proved that he is perfectly capable of taking advantage of any problems that Hamilton may have, but I still get the impression that Mercedes are much more interested in Hamilton getting the wins.
The very in-form Ricciardo is a 20/1 shot which would be an outstanding e/w bet if the bookies offered the first three places, which they really should be thinking off again with three teams in the hunt for race wins and podiums. With his 1st place excepted all Ricciardo’s podiums have been third places which makes an e/w bet unattractive but he is an 11/4 shot to make it six podiums in a row. The bookmakers clearly think Ricciardo and Red Bull have been a bit lucky but when you get a good run like that, it’s never all about luck.
Verstappen is the same price despite his run of poor luck. That’s hard to understand but it is not like there is anything wrong with Verstappen, it’s just his car. When it all works he is likely to be the faster Red Bull which makes backing either very difficult. Back the faster one who always breaks down, or the guy that gets the good breaks and hope that Verstappen’s woes do not start to affect Ricciardo. This race, with its high downforce characteristics and high speed corners will be a good measure of just how far Red Bull has progressed compared to their more powerful rivals.
Raikkonen is in a good car, also gets the upgraded power unit from Ferrari, but his recent form is poor, just 7th best for the last five races. Just two podium finishes from nine starts is poor in a car that is leading the world championship in Vettel’s hands. Even at 33/1 to he makes little appeal and he has been no better than fifth in the last five years.
The rest of the field are not in a position to win a normal race and the weather forecast for the weekend suggests that the weather will not transform this race into an open race. There is a chance of a light shower on Sunday but generally it will be a mixture of clouds and sun with a gusty breeze making handling tricky on some corners.
Force India, whose factory is just outside the gates of Silverstone will be bringing their biggest upgrade of the season to their home race and they have been impressive these last few years with their upgrades. They generally succeed in doing what it says on the tin, which is not always the case with upgrades, so I expect another solid performance from the pink panthers. They had a 6th/7th double points finish last year and will be aiming for the same again, maybe a double top 6 finish
Ocon has been a revelation this season, moving up to a good team from a backer marker team and scoring points with remarkable regularity. He is only going to get stronger (especially in the second half of the season when he returns to tracks he has raced before in F1). He has had three top six finishes in the last five races and his qualifying pace is improving, making Q3 in five of the last six. The cars reliability has been excellent and now with a major upgrade they will be hoping to close the gap to the top teams.
2 points Estaban Ocon to finish in the top six @ 15/8 with Skybet, William Hill, Paddy Power
Haas are not yet a rock solid performer like Force India but they have improved their performances in the last four or five races. Grosjean has the lion’s share of the points but Magnussen is ready to take his chance and just needs a trouble free weekend to back into the points. They will be trying out new brakes on Friday with improved cooling features and if that works they will stay on for the weekend. Brakes are not normally a big issue at Silverstone but it is an area were Haas needs to improve. In last years pole position lap by Lewis Hamilton he was on the brakes for only about 14 seconds of his 1.29.289 minute lap. Hopefully this will be good news for Haas.
2 points a double points finish for Haas @ 5/2 with Ladbrokes, Skybet
Joylon Palmer is still pointless after the last nine races but he was just 0.5 off 10th in Austria last week, his third 11th place in four races. His car has yet him down badly and he is under great pressure to start delivering some points otherwise his F1 career is as good as finished. Those are not great working conditions but F1 is a harsh game. At least this is a track he knows better than any other and with a little luck and more importantly, better reliability, Palmer can scrape into the points. He is no great driver and is unlikely to here next year but he is worth a small bet at William Hills enhanced odds of 9/1 (Race specials)
1 point Joylon Palmer to finish in the points @ 9/1 with William Hill |
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Tanel
HV Guru

liitunud: 01.10.2001
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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13.07.2017 18:53:12
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Homme testitav HALO
Spoiler 
viimati muutis -Kaivo- 13.07.2017 19:24:30, muudetud 1 kord |
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eltso
HV veteran

liitunud: 03.02.2010
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13.07.2017 19:06:14
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| Kas siis võib lahtise visiiriga sõita? Topelt klaas silmeees vist väga mõnus ei ole.
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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13.07.2017 20:37:11
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kojamehi polegi,
kiivril see eelis et vähemalt võid kile eest ära tõmmata
e:
monokulmul vist depper põhjas nagu alati
| tsitaat: |
| Fernando Alonso is set for a host of engine-related grid penalties at the British Grand Prix, with Honda confirming that he has a five-place drop as it stands. |
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-Koppel-
Kreisi kasutaja

liitunud: 01.04.2009
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13.07.2017 22:28:08
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F1 sōitjad testivad seda reaktsiooni appi.
Spoiler 
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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13.07.2017 22:38:49
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Verstappen vist testib best crash time äppi
e:
Spoiler 
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jeesus188
kodustatud

liitunud: 14.04.2003
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14.07.2017 12:22:51
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Ma algust vaatasin, vettel sõitis 1-2 ringi ja kruvis visiiri maha...oligi kogu test?
_________________ This message was sent from space using stargate
Inimene on troopiline AHV Aga kes on naine? Valge on ka inimene !
"Vaese inimese juttu räägid. Kui tundub kallis, siis on see kellelegi teisele mõeldud" |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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14.07.2017 12:23:11
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mhm kogu aeg nii olnud
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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14.07.2017 12:32:15
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ferru suht off pace olnud siiamaani, mingi sekundiga taga,
eks näeb mis FP2 toob
mersudest
| tsitaat: |
| Both drivers beat last year's pole position time... |
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| Kommentaarid: 66 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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14.07.2017 19:33:37
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Bottas with 5 place grid penalty. Again gearbox. Same root cause like Hamilton in Austria had.
| tsitaat: |
Long runs (own calculations)
Hamilton: Supersoft 1:33,195 (calculated over 10 laps). Soft 1:31,838 (4 laps)
Bottas: Medium 1:33,957 (8 laps)
Vettel: Supersoft 1:33,270 (7 laps) Soft 1:32,769 (9 laps)
Raikkonen: Supersoft 1:33,150 (18 laps)
Verstappen: Supersoft 1:33,857 (10 laps) Soft 1:33,471 (6 laps)
Ricciardo: Supersoft 1:34,163 (9 laps) Soft 1:33,637
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eltso
HV veteran

liitunud: 03.02.2010
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14.07.2017 22:36:05
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| Ei saa aru mis nende punastega siis nüüd juhtus?
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| Kommentaarid: 14 loe/lisa |
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jeesus188
kodustatud

liitunud: 14.04.2003
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| Kommentaarid: 71 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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15.07.2017 11:38:04
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| riciardo saab ka +5 käigukasti eest.
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Winterwind
One

liitunud: 19.05.2002
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15.07.2017 12:20:19
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Bottas sealt tagantpoolt startides sõidab Räikkoneni kohe jälle välja
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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15.07.2017 14:47:21
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kulm laseb samas graafikus
| tsitaat: |
Fernando Alonso is set to start from the back of the grid at the British Grand Prix after Honda fitted additional power unit elements to his MCL32, leading to further penalties.
Alonso entered the Silverstone weekend with a five-place drop, having taken on his fifth Energy Store of the season, as Honda's Spec 3 power unit was re-fitted to his car, after a Friday failure in Austria.
On Saturday morning, it was confirmed that Alonso's MCL32 had been equipped with his eighth Turbo Charger, eighth MGU-H, sixth Internal Combustion Engine and sixth MGU-K.
The sixth ICE and MGU-K each carry a five-place penalty, which combined leads to a 25-place demotion.
Added to the pre-event sanction, it means that Alonso heads into qualifying with a 30-place penalty, all-but-consigning him to the back of the grid.
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| Kommentaarid: 66 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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15.07.2017 14:51:12
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| vihma hakkas sadama
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| Kommentaarid: 16 loe/lisa |
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Oisu.
HV kasutaja
liitunud: 02.03.2012
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15.07.2017 15:22:13
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Räiks: raining raining raining
ALO???
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Winterwind
One

liitunud: 19.05.2002
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15.07.2017 15:25:22
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Alonso
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| Kommentaarid: 1009 loe/lisa |
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Magic
HV Guru

liitunud: 28.12.2001
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15.07.2017 15:26:00
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Alonso
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| Kommentaarid: 235 loe/lisa |
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Oisu.
HV kasutaja
liitunud: 02.03.2012
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15.07.2017 15:26:15
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| Winterwind kirjutas: |
Alonso  |
Tundus, et ei jõudnud
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| Kommentaarid: 3 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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15.07.2017 15:27:47
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| jõudis ju
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| Kommentaarid: 16 loe/lisa |
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Winterwind
One

liitunud: 19.05.2002
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15.07.2017 15:27:47
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Jõudis küll, just näitas, koba aga kindel
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Look Right
Anna vin

liitunud: 05.02.2007
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15.07.2017 15:27:54
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Alonso
_________________ Ehitusprojektid ja konstruktiivsed lahendused HV kasutajatele soodsamalt
M: Zafira A/Astra G põhjakaitse - 30€ |
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| Kommentaarid: 19 loe/lisa |
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Winterwind
One

liitunud: 19.05.2002
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15.07.2017 15:48:22
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| Vandoorne 10s isegi, Alo alles 13s, aga ega vahet pole ka väga, nagunii stardib viimaselt kohalt ja polnud mõtet pingutada
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| Kommentaarid: 1009 loe/lisa |
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Oisu.
HV kasutaja
liitunud: 02.03.2012
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15.07.2017 16:05:06
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| Kas Bottase k. kasti vahetus oli sunnitud või lihtsalt mängivad?
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| Kommentaarid: 3 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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15.07.2017 16:07:45
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Kes teab. Hami aeg aga loodetavasti saab +5 blokkimise eest
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Winterwind
One

liitunud: 19.05.2002
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15.07.2017 16:07:52
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Ham
Kimi
Vet
esikolmik, rbr kaotab ringi peale 1.5 sek
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sakinaga
HV Guru
liitunud: 30.08.2006
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15.07.2017 16:40:49
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| Oisu. kirjutas: |
| Kas Bottase k. kasti vahetus oli sunnitud või lihtsalt mängivad? |
Kummaline küsimus. Muidugi sunnitud.
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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15.07.2017 16:45:41
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Lewis käis öösel salaja muukimas seda vbla et vahetust oli vaja,
võttis paar hammasratast ka suveniiriks
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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15.07.2017 17:17:10
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| -Kaivo- kirjutas: |
Kes teab. Hami aeg aga loodetavasti saab +5 blokkimise eest  |
| tsitaat: |
Lewis Hamilton has avoided a penalty, and held onto his pole position, after being investigated for potentially impeding Romain Grosjean during British Grand Prix qualifying.
After analysing video footage and telemetry, the stewards opted against any further action.
"The stewards concluded that, while GRO may potentially have been affected by the pressure of HAM at Turn 16, he was not impeded," read a brief note from the panel.
Hamilton will thus keep his fifth home pole.
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| Kommentaarid: 66 loe/lisa |
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-Kaivo-
HV Guru
liitunud: 22.08.2007
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| Kommentaarid: 16 loe/lisa |
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Porno Parm
mugavuspagulane

liitunud: 30.11.2003
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15.07.2017 17:45:56
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clear block,
aga arvata oli ka et hämmile penaltit ei anta vaadates Cship seisu ja et Bottas anyway ka juba 5 places drop
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| Kommentaarid: 66 loe/lisa |
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Tanel
HV Guru

liitunud: 01.10.2001
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| Kommentaarid: 465 loe/lisa |
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sakinaga
HV Guru
liitunud: 30.08.2006
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15.07.2017 21:57:34
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| Tanel kirjutas: |
| salatoimik, mis see Bottase reageering siis oli? |
0.201 FIA andmetel, kui ei eksi.
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| Kommentaarid: 164 loe/lisa |
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