[liiv]

Elver Loho jagas väga huvitavat infot. Eesti kohta on üsna retsid numbrid. 1862 inimest kuulati viimase poole aastaga pealt ja veerandi Eesti elanikonna peal kasutati emergency positioning http://www.teliasonera.com/en/sustainability/transparency-report-new/
Huvitav kuidas nad need andmed läbi töötada jõuavad?


sry kui vale teema aga telefonidega see seotud on

[Dirty Harry]

Äkki see on üldisemalt turvafoorumi-teema?

[soomer]

[Mobileman]

Eestis nuhitakse ikka hoolega: http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/ekspress/laanemere-meister-nuhkimises-eestis-kuulatakse-inimesi-10-korda-rohkem-pealt-kui-skandinaavia-riikides?id=83701819

[libu]

Sama on ka interneti pealt kuulamine, windowsile on pealtkuulamisseadmed eestis täiesti olemas. Seepärast olen linuxi peal.

[An-4]

Huvitav, mida on ebahuvitavas postkastis avada, kui juba mitmes meilboxis ilmub kirjade alla kiri, et avatud ka mujal asukohas? Aga peremeeslooma sisselogimise seadmeid on üks. Ja ip-tabelis ilmub küll kaks kellaaega vaevu minutilise vahega aga ip on mõlema taga sama ja brauseriaknaid lahti ainult üks.

[laurx]

järelikult on põhjust. kedagi tegelikult ei huvita, kas sa tahad õhtuks saia või leiba osta. kui kuulatakse pealt kedagi, kuulatakse ja vaadatakse ka neid , kellega ta suhtleb. kanepilohvist loho võiks oma ära siutsetatud aju natuke sihipärasemalt pruukida ja muudel paranoikutel tasub oma tegemiste suhtes kriitilisem olla ning rohud aegsasti ära võtta: õige hõlma ei hakka keegi teadis juba vanarahvas rääkida.

tutvusringkonnas on skisofreenik, kellele sügisel vale ravi määrati ja nüüd on kõik kahtlased..

[SSD]

Kui nii hull paranoia painab, siis võiks alustuseks lõpetada nutiseadmete kasutamise.

[An-4]

Kui nii hull arstiks saamise himu, siis võiks alustuseks lõpetada enne diplomit diagnoosimise.
Huumorina - olgu noh. Et ma ei naera, saan andeks, see pole patoloogia. Postituse teemakohavalikut saab võtta nii huumori, tüütuse- kui turvaprobleemina.

Ma pole huvitatud, et minu seadme kaudu teeb keegi veel midagi ja seda minu sisselogimisega sama toiminguga, millest mulle tulevad turvahoiatused.
Tegelikult oleks isegi ükskõik, aga siis enne pohhuismimütsikese silmini tõmbamist luban endale väikese uudishimu. Ka pole patoloogia.
Ei verista see uudishimu kedagi.

Vanarahvas rääkis oma tarkusi ammu enne logimisajastut. Ei pea olema milleski süüdi, ebaõige ega kahtlane, et üle kellegi tehnika midagi hoopis kellegi teise huvides tehtaks.
Ma olen liiga loll, et ise aru saada, miks mul mitmes kohas ja kontodel sellised märguanded ilmuvad. Varem on sama olnud, kui päris ammu raamatukogus postkast lahti jäi.

Eraviisiliselt inimeste poolt omavahel kirjutatud ja räägitud kommunikatsiooni kuskilt kolmanda osapoole poolse analüüsimise ja pealtkuulamise teemasse niisama lisa, et olnud mõned vestlused ja guugeldamised sõnaga skisofreenia ja järgnenud tulv youtube vaatamissoovitusi skisofreenikute ja skisofreenia kohta. See pole ka mingi uudis, et jälgimise liike ja viise on mitmeid. Legaalseid ja vähem või üldse mitte-. Mul poleks midagi selle vastu, et eristada, millega üldse tegu on. Võibolla on võimalik, et mingil x-põhjusel avanebki meiliaken just siin ja just minul topeltkujul. Paraku mitte ainult meiliaken.
Kui aga keegi peaks ametikohustusi täites kellegi sõnavahetusi jälgima, siis viisaka inimesena ma säästaks inimest ja hoiaks end võõra silme all vähemalt ropendamisest..

[est11]

vaheta parool ära

[Betamax]

2-tasandiline autentimine peal?

[perseas]

The "Digital" Absolute Experiment of China...Yellow Big Brother:

Spoiler

By 2020, Chinese officials plan to have about 626 million surveillance cameras operating throughout the country. Those cameras will, among other things, feed information into a national "social credit system."

That system, when it is in place in perhaps two years, will assign to every person in China a constantly updated score based on observed behaviors. For example, an instance of jaywalking, caught by one of those cameras, will result in a reduction in score.

Although officials might hope to reduce jaywalking, they seem to have far more sinister ambitions, such as ensuring conformity to Communist Party political demands. In short, the government looks as if it is determined to create what the Economist called "the world's first digital totalitarian state."

That social credit system, once perfected, will surely be extended to foreign companies and individuals.

At present, there are more than a dozen national blacklists, and about three dozen various localities have been operating experimental social credit scoring systems. Some of those systems have failed miserably. Others, such as the one in Rongcheng in Shandong province, have been considered successful.

In the Rongcheng system, each resident starts with 1,000 points, and, based upon their changing score, are ranked from A+++ to D. The system has affected behavior: incredibly for China, drivers stop for pedestrians at crosswalks.

Drivers stop at crosswalks because residents in that city have, as Foreign Policy reported, "embraced" the social credit system. Some like the system so much that they have set up micro social credit systems in schools, hospitals, and neighborhoods. Social credit systems obviously answer a need for what people in other societies take for granted.

Yet, can what works on a city level be extended across China? As technology advances and data banks are added, the small experimental programs and the national lists will eventually be merged into one countrywide system. The government has already begun to roll out its "Integrated Joint Operations Platform," which aggregates data from various sources such as cameras, identification checks, and "wifi sniffers."

So, what will the end product look like? "It will not be a unified platform where one can type in his or her ID and get a single three-digit score that will decide their lives," Foreign Policy says.

Despite the magazine's assurances, this type of system is precisely what Chinese officials say they want. After all, they tell us the purpose of the initiative is to "allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step."

That description is not an exaggeration. Officials prevented Liu Hu, a journalist, from taking a flight because he had a low score. The Global Times, a tabloid that belongs to the Communist Party-owned People's Daily, reported that, as of the end of April 2018, authorities had blocked individuals from taking 11.14 million flights and 4.25 million high-speed rail trips.

Chinese officials, however, are using the lists for determining more than just access to planes and trains. "I can't buy property. My child can't go to a private school," Liu said. "You feel you're being controlled by the list all the time."

The system is designed to control conduct by giving the ruling Communist Party the ability to administer punishments and hand out rewards. And the system could end up being unforgiving. Hou Yunchun, a former deputy director of the State Council's development research center, said at a forum in Beijing in May that the social credit system should be administered so that "discredited people become bankrupt". "If we don't increase the cost of being discredited, we are encouraging discredited people to keep at it," Hou said. "That destroys the whole standard."

Not every official has such a vindictive attitude, but it appears that all share the assumption, as the dovish Zhi Zhenfeng of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences said, that "discredited people deserve legal consequences."

President Xi Jinping, the final and perhaps only arbiter in China, has made it clear how he feels about the availability of second chances. "Once untrustworthy, always restricted," the Chinese ruler says.

What happens, then, to a country where only the compliant are allowed to board a plane or be rewarded with discounts for government services? No one quite knows because never before has a government had the ability to constantly assess everyone and then enforce its will. The People's Republic has been more meticulous in keeping files and ranking residents than previous Chinese governments, and computing power and artificial intelligence are now giving China's officials extraordinary capabilities.

Beijing is almost certain to extend the social credit system, which has roots in attempts to control domestic enterprises, to foreign companies. Let us remember that Chinese leaders this year have taken on the world's travel industry by forcing hotel chains and airlines to show Taiwan as part of the People's Republic of China, so they have demonstrated determination to intimidate and punish. Once the social credit system is up and running, it would be a small step to include non-Chinese into that system, extending Xi's tech-fueled totalitarianism to the entire world.

The dominant narrative in the world's liberal democracies is that tech favors totalitarianism. It is certainly true that, unrestrained by privacy concerns, hardline regimes are better able to collect, analyze, and use data, which could provide a decisive edge in applying artificial intelligence A democratic government may be able to compile a no-fly list, but none could ever come close to implementing Xi Jinping's vision of a social credit system.

Chinese leaders have long been obsessed with what then-President Jiang Zemin in 1995 called "informatization, automation, and intelligentization," and they are only getting started. Given the capabilities they are amassing, they could, the argument goes, make defiance virtually impossible.

Technology might even make liberal democracy and free-markets "obsolete" writes Yuval Noah Harari of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in the Atlantic. "The main handicap of authoritarian regimes in the 20th century — the desire to concentrate all information and power in one place — may become their decisive advantage in the 21st century," he writes.

There is no question that technology empowers China's one-party state to repress people effectively. Exhibit A for this proposition is, of course, the country's social credit system.

Yet China's communists will probably overreach. The country's experience so far with social credit systems suggests that officials are their own worst enemies. An early experiment to build such a system in Suining county in Jiangsu province was a failure:

"Both residents and state media blasted it for its seemingly unfair and arbitrary criteria, with one state-run newspaper comparing the system to the 'good citizen' certificates issued by Japan during its wartime occupation of China."

The Rongcheng system has been more successful because its scope has been relatively modest.

Xi Jinping will not be as restrained as Rongcheng's officials. He evidently believes the Party must have absolute control over society and he must have absolute control over the Party. It is simply inconceivable that he will not include in the national social credit system, when it is stitched together, political criteria. Already Chinese officials are trying to use artificial intelligence to predict anti-Party behavior.

Xi Jinping is not merely an authoritarian leader, as it is often said. He is taking China back to totalitarianism as he seeks Mao-like control over all aspects of society.

The question now is whether the increasingly defiant Chinese people will accept Xi's all-encompassing vision. In recent months, many have taken to the streets: truck drivers striking over costs and fees, army veterans marching for pensions, investors blocking government offices to get money back from fraudsters, Muslims surrounding mosques to stop demolition, and parents protesting the scourge of adulterated vaccines, among others. Chinese leaders obviously think their social credit system will stop these and other expressions of discontent.

Let us hope that China's people are not in fact discouraged. Given the breadth of the Communist Party's ambitions, everyone, Chinese or not, has a stake in seeing that Beijing's digital totalitarianism fails.

Gordon G. Chang is the author of "The Coming Collapse of China" and a Gatestone Institute Distinguished Senior Fellow.

[laurx]

Pangakaart on jälitatav, telefon jagab andmeid, arvuti tegeleb telemeetriaga... majsad sulas, sõidad autoga ilma navita ja ostad auto, millel pole asukohapõhist õnnetusest teatamise süsteemi, tööl teed tööasju ja kohustuslikus korras postitad keskbäljakul tehtud tuvoäipiöte ning ekret ülistama ei lasku.. väga palju inimeses kinni.

[An-4]

Paroolivahetust tehtud korduvalt.
Just tegin uuesti ja esimest korda kohe pärast paroolivahetust oli juba teise asukoha kiri all olemas.
Visuaalselt on see topeltavanemine näha. Gmailil punaste kontuuridega ümbrik ekraanil viipab luuki. See ei peaks käima nii, et ilmub saabunud kirjade pilt ja hakkab uuesti valge ekraani ja ümbriku multikas, aga kordub. Korduse järel on all teise asukoha kiri. Sealt saan tabeli ip-de ja aegadega. Ip on mõlemal värskel real sama, kellaaeg erineb.
Tabelil on rida kõigist seanssidest väljalogimiseks. Mida ma reeglina ka kasutan.

Kaheastmeline olemas. Kasutasin erinevatel kordadel nii üle telefoni kui üle teise meiliaadressi.
Praegu tegin üle teise meiliaadressi kinnitusega.

[Betamax]

Logi jõuga kõikjalt välja. Google'il selline võimalus olemas.

[An-4]

[laurx]

Tuvipilte.

[An-4]

[Betamax]

Facebook ja Messenger on kaks erinevat süsteemi tänapäeval.
Google'is võid ka seadmete eemaldamist proovida.

[An-4]

Aitäh!
Kaks erinevat süsteemi, aga oluliselt seotud. Läpakas ühte sisse logides olen teises sees, meiliaadressiga registreeritud Fb sisselogi laseb inimese oma kontole ja ühtlasi messerisse. Kui sama kasutaja lülitab nutitelo välja, läpakas logib samakasutaja kõik muud oma kasutuses seansid, seadmed ja logid välja, siis pole loogiline avastada sisselogides, et kuskilt veel on äsja aktiivsus, sisse logitud või üldse paralleelselt online.

Geograafiliste asukohtade näit logidel pole ilmselt eriti ei täpne ega informatiivne, alati Harjumaa, olles kuitahes Lõuna-Eestis. Üks kord oli Virumaa.
Füüsiline on Tartu.

[Märt.]

Vandenõuteoreetikutele on teine teema

[An-4]

Kui minu asi on vales kohas, olnuks viisakas viidata see õigem koht.
Kui minu asjas puudub vandenõuteooria, siis ma ei tahaks ebaviisakas olla...

Kui logikasutaja saab turvahoiatuse, siis saab ignoreerides olla kas loll või väga loll. Nii dumbjuureritele mõnigi viskab, kui neil midagi laokile ja ära on juhtunud.

Tark teaks, millega tegu ja elimineeriks. Ei ole tark, mis parata.
Mina prosta kodanikuna ei tea, et ma produtseeriks midagi eriti väärtuslikku või ihaldusväärset. Mulle saadetu eest peaks mul postkasti nö võtmehoidjana siiski ka teatav vastutus olema, sest on asju, millel on levitamise piirangute märked, kasutamiseks kas konkreetseks juhuks või mingite tingimuste ja mööndustega. Kui mina näen, et miski või keegi kasutab sama võtit minuga, minu volituseta, siis vandenõudest ja teooria poolest mul savi. Praktilisest huvist tahaks teada, kuidas see kontode paralleelne avatus lõpetada.
Siinmainitu oli kõik juba proovitud.
Probleem jäi korduma. Kui see oli probleem.

[mryx]

[An-4]

Gmaili konto sisu ei ole selle erinevaid funktsioone seda kõike üle kümne aasta kasutanul võimalik märkimisväärse tülikuseta ümber tõsta. Messeri sisu ka omaette...
Eesti keeles ütleks, et ilge kamm. Teaks siis üldse, kelle või mille pärast.. ei tea, mis hea pärast peaks kolima konto legaalne looja.

Kes või mis pääseb niimoodi gmaili, pääseb ka mujale. Ja kui minul, siis kellel tahes.

[pppd]

mis brauser, mis pluginad? Selle infi pealt tundub, et sinna võib olla mingi tripper sisse roninud või siis mingi abiline installitud..

Kui mingist teada puhtast ja korras masinast (nt virtuaalmasin) proovida sisse logida, kas siis teeb ka sama trikki?